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   All Posts (Bandersnatch)


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Re: Well Wright county got there way
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Posts: 3000
What better way for the local land owners to reduce boat traffic on Their Lake.

Posted on: 10/2 18:57:47
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Re: Natives Allowed to hunt Moose again
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Quote:

LOW1 wrote:
Quote:

Bandersnatch wrote:
Quote:

LOW1 wrote:
Quote:

Bandersnatch wrote:
Quote:

LOW1 wrote:
Yes, there would have to be two components on each side. the "static" value of the casino/res/trust properties, the "static" value of the 13 million acres, the revenue generated by the casino/res/trust properties and the revenue generated by the 13 million acres.


I am going to guess that the 13 million acres produces at least $50 million in property tax alone.


Depending on location. Exemptions for this that and the other thing, don'tcha know.


In 2015 Mille Lacs County generated about $15 million in property tax. http://www.auditor.state.mn.us/Search/CountySearch.aspx

This doesn't include the other counties that now exist on the 13 million acres.

I assume that city property taxes are in addition to this?


If the Bands published The Take we could have a real conversation!

The last estimate that I heard on the Mille Lacs Band for both Casinos was right around 750K on just the Slots. I believe that was Per Week.

But that was Years ago


I added up the property taxes collected in 2015 for Crow Wing, Mille Lacs, Atkin, Pine, Kanabec, Isanti, Chisago, Benton and Morrison counties and came up with about $175 million for that year.

That just the county tax revenue and doesn't include the income which was earned in those counties from the 13 million acres.


I still think that is a drop in the bucket compared to the Casino take of just the Mille Lacs Bands properties.

Posted on: 9/13 13:29:29
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Re: Natives Allowed to hunt Moose again
LSF Member
Joined:
02/28/2005
Posts: 3000
Quote:

LOW1 wrote:
Quote:

Bandersnatch wrote:
Quote:

LOW1 wrote:
Yes, there would have to be two components on each side. the "static" value of the casino/res/trust properties, the "static" value of the 13 million acres, the revenue generated by the casino/res/trust properties and the revenue generated by the 13 million acres.


I am going to guess that the 13 million acres produces at least $50 million in property tax alone.


Depending on location. Exemptions for this that and the other thing, don'tcha know.


In 2015 Mille Lacs County generated about $15 million in property tax. http://www.auditor.state.mn.us/Search/CountySearch.aspx

This doesn't include the other counties that now exist on the 13 million acres.

I assume that city property taxes are in addition to this?


If the Bands published The Take we could have a real conversation!

The last estimate that I heard on the Mille Lacs Band for both Casinos was right around 750K on just the Slots. I believe that was Per Week.

But that was Years ago

Posted on: 9/13 13:00:53
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Re: Natives Allowed to hunt Moose again
LSF Member
Joined:
02/28/2005
Posts: 3000
Quote:

LOW1 wrote:
Yes, there would have to be two components on each side. the "static" value of the casino/res/trust properties, the "static" value of the 13 million acres, the revenue generated by the casino/res/trust properties and the revenue generated by the 13 million acres.


I am going to guess that the 13 million acres produces at least $50 million in property tax alone.


Depending on location. Exemptions for this that and the other thing, don'tcha know.

Posted on: 9/13 12:14:20
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Re: Natives Allowed to hunt Moose again
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Quote:

otter wrote:
Hahahaha, you can't be serious that the casinos are worth more than the 13 million acres given up. I'm sure the tribes would give up the casinos for the getting the land back. Don't forget that there would be no vacation/tourism industry in Minnesota without the treaties.


Yes.

I am.

See above.

Posted on: 9/13 11:10:51
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Re: Natives Allowed to hunt Moose again
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Joined:
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Posts: 3000
Quote:

LOW1 wrote:
Quote:

Bandersnatch wrote:
That would depend on the productivity of that land, and its taxable value when compared to the Res lands, don't you think?

Before answering, remember, Minnesota is a special case. It is the only State that the casinos get a free ride. So that Dollar per Acre is going to be worth Way More that you may have envisioned initially.


I agree that it would be an interesting calculation.

If there are enough zeros in my calculation, 13 million acres at $1000 per acre is $13 Billion. Then we would have to add the value of the houses, factories, etc. (We could probably get this from assessment records but I am not that ambitious)

If we assume that the improvements are equal in value to the land that would be $26 billion in real estate value. Plus all the income and income tax generated from this land and the resulting jobs over the years.

What's a casino worth? I don't know. A guess would be $50 Million or so but that's just a guess.

And we can't include the cost of social programs when calculating what the Bands received under the treaty, as they did not get citizenship under the treaty and instead did not get that until the 1920s.


Yup.

But remember, you have to take into consideration that the land value is static (more or less) other than value fluctuation, where as the casino is generating profit each and every day.

So there will be a line of demarcation where the casino profit eventually surpasses that land value, and from that point foward?

Pure Cake

Posted on: 9/13 11:10:15
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Re: Natives Allowed to hunt Moose again
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Joined:
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Posts: 3000
That would depend on the productivity of that land, and its taxable value when compared to the Res lands, don't you think?

Before answering, remember, Minnesota is a special case. It is the only State that the casinos get a free ride. So that Dollar per Acre is going to be worth Way More that you may have envisioned initially.

Posted on: 9/13 9:59:15
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Re: Natives Allowed to hunt Moose again
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Joined:
02/28/2005
Posts: 3000
Quote:

otter wrote:
You know you have no leg to stand on when you start bickering over petty little things. What has a greater value 2+ million acres of land or 2 million lbs of walleyes and 1000 moose? Don't forget without the treaty Mille Lacs could have a similar reservation system as Lower Red.


That one is easy!

To the State and its Citizens the fish, fowl, and fur are the more valuable.

Why you ask?

Because that acreage is not taxable when under Band ownership.
It is a net loss for the State and it Citizens, who must still maintain access to that now Sovereign land that contributes nothing back to the State in Taxes.

Posted on: 9/13 9:10:55
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Re: Natives Allowed to hunt Moose again
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Joined:
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Quote:

LOW1 wrote:
Unfortunately it cannot ever be just about the moose (or the walleye, whatever.) What has happened in the past has caused this to become a fight over sovereignity. Its the same reason why the United States sends naval vessels to patrol China-made "islands" or why Canada wants to build arctic ports: to make a claim to the "turf" that is involved.

I suspect that for the bands having the power and ability to decide is at least as important as harvesting moose. And given the history, I can certainly understand why they feel the need to do so.

Hopefully the biologists will work together behind the scenes.

Unless people accept that the bands have both sovereignity AND the rights of US citizenship things will not get better.


That's fine. But I for one hate the Half Measures.

If the Bands want to maintain that sovereignty, then do so at their detriment as well as their advantage.

Pay for their own up keep on the infrastructure to and from their casinos.

Immigration and Customs at every Res, casino or not.

If the Bands want to live a separate sovereign life, then do so.

Posted on: 9/10 18:44:32
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Re: Natives Allowed to hunt Moose again
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Joined:
02/28/2005
Posts: 3000
Add those 66 to the numbers that the Wolves take, and it will add up fast when you only have a 3-4K herd to begin with.

Like the DNR's Moose study, where they checked on the collared Moose because it stopped moving. The only think left was some hide, and the collar. DNR's comment? We'll have to investigate this and see if the animal died from disease.

I actually fell to the couch laughing.

Posted on: 9/8 14:09:33
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