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Re: New Petition to eliminate Treaty Management on Mille Lacs |
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LSF Member  
Joined:
02/28/2005
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Quote:
LOW1 wrote:
For years the biggest argument against the Bands' harvest rights was that the Bands' practice of gillnetting during the spawn was a major factor in the crash of the ML walleye population. It was claimed that this practice killed walleye before they spawned and interfered with others that were trying to spawn.
Biologists studied the matter and concluded that the decline in ML walleye was not caused by a lack of walleye spawn but was instead caused by a failure of the spawn to live to maturity. Predation by walleye and other fish was apparently a big part of why this failure to reach maturity was occurring.
FishnPole, in a post below, argues that treaty management should be eliminated because the quotas agreed to as part of this process are too low and that by removing more larger walleye that more spawn may reach maturity. (I hope FnP corrects me if I have mistated his view)
If FnP is correct, it seems to me that if treaty management has succeeded to the point where there is a need to harvest more ML walleye, that the last thing we want to do is get rid of treaty management. Instead, if FnP is correct, the thing to do would be to adjust the quotas upwards.
I don't think either side wants to keep the quotas low. For example, if the state wanted to keep the quotas low it would not have harvested over its quota last fall. Let the biologists hash it out and give us their view of the current situation.
I would add here that "more fish" should not be confused with "more BIGGER fish". It has always been my contention that the DNR managing the lake for Trophy Fishery though the Slot has and is what is screwing up the lake. As I said previously, with two seasons now of no harvest on the Sports-persons side, I fear that we are in for a lake collapse if the DNR and GLIF folks don't stop the Tinkering. How did we get here? Net sizes and Slots targeting the very same year classes year after year, with the DNR being the worse for this, as they would adjust their Slot to actually follow a year class, in effect decimating that year class of fish. Yes there are those that yell about netting during the Spawn, and if nothing else it is s PR nightmare when fish populations are low, to be taking them before they drop their eggs. That said Mille Lac has about 86 Miles of shoreline to Spawn on, so I hardly think that the 100 or so boats netting and/or spearing are making the impact on the lake that I am talking about. The Slots make a much bigger impact over all with the numbers of Sport Fisher-persons. Real numbers are hard to argue about. (as in real numbers of people taking fish, not bogus hooking mortality numbers that include every boat that drives by the lake on 169, whether they put in or not /s) JMO (as usual)
Posted on: 6/19 10:41:20
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Re: New Petition to eliminate Treaty Management on Mille Lacs |
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LSF Member Joined:
02/28/2005
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es·ti·mate
verb
verb: estimate; 3rd person present: estimates; past tense: estimated; past participle: estimated; gerund or present participle: estimating
ˈestəˌmāt/
1.
roughly calculate or judge the value, number, quantity, or extent of.
"the aim is to estimate the effects of macroeconomic policy on the economy"
synonyms: calculate roughly, approximate, guess; More
evaluate, judge, gauge, reckon, rate, determine;
informalguesstimate, ballpark
"estimate the cost"
consider, believe, reckon, deem, judge, rate, gauge
"we estimate it to be worth $50,000"
noun
noun: estimate; plural noun: estimates
ˈestəmət/
1.
an approximate calculation or judgment of the value, number, quantity, or extent of something.
"at a rough estimate, our staff is recycling a quarter of the paper used"
synonyms: rough calculation, approximation, estimation, rough guess;
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fact
fakt/
noun
noun: fact; plural noun: facts
a thing that is indisputably the case.
"the most commonly known fact about hedgehogs is that they have fleas"
synonyms: reality, actuality, certainty; More
truth, verity, gospel
"it is a fact that the water is polluted"
antonyms: lie, fiction
used in discussing the significance of something that is the case.
noun: the fact that
"the real problem facing them is the fact that their funds are being cut"
a piece of information used as evidence or as part of a report or news article.
synonyms: detail, piece of information, particular, item, specific, element, point, factor, feature, characteristic, ingredient, circumstance, aspect, facet; information
"every fact was double-checked"
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Doth endith the lesson.
See ya.
Posted on: 6/15 15:17:46
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Re: New Petition to eliminate Treaty Management on Mille Lacs |
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LSF Member Joined:
02/28/2005
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What I worry about here and now, is that after two seasons of taking basically no fish from the lake, and the doubts that I have had about the DNRs numbers to begin with, there may well be more fish in the lake right now than there has been in the last 30 years.
You may think this is a good thing. I worry that if there is a bait fish shortage For Whatever Reason we may well see the Entire Lake Crash.
Floaters as far as the eye could see.
All because some egotist downtown St Paul can't admit that they could have been wrong.
When you hear the phrase "We're from the government, and we're here to help"
THAT'S WHEN YOU RUN
Posted on: 6/15 14:40:37
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Re: New Petition to eliminate Treaty Management on Mille Lacs |
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LSF Member Joined:
02/28/2005
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Quote:
LOW1 wrote:
Here's your proof that the agreed-upon quota was violated - but I suspect that you already knew that.
http://www.twincities.com/2016/08/09/mille-lacs-walleye-quota-busted-but-dayton-orders-lake-open-fishing/
And I agree that the quota may or not have been scientifically sound. If the sport anglers did not like the quota, however, the time to raise that concern was before it was agreed to by the sport anglers' political leaders. Likewise, if "we" did not like the retained harvest rights provision of the treaty, "we" should not have agreed to it.
The deal was made - it should have been honored. And you now want to somehow argue that the Bands should have THEIR rights taken away?
When the judge asks "Mr. Snatch, why you think the Bands should be punished when it was the sport anglers who violated the 2016 quota," what are you going to say?
"A fresh analysis by the Department of Natural Resources estimates " There is that word again ESTIMATES which is no "proof" of anything. As I already said. If you wish to discuss something, I'll be around. If you simply wish to be obtuse to continue arguing what truth is, I don't have the time to waste.
Posted on: 6/15 14:29:17
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Re: New Petition to eliminate Treaty Management on Mille Lacs |
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LSF Member Joined:
02/28/2005
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Quote:
LOW1 wrote:
Quote:
Bandersnatch wrote:
Quote:
LOW1 wrote:
It gets real hard to claim misconduct by the Bands when it was the anglers who intentionally violated their quota last year.
Which can neither be proven, nor disproved.
Hooking mortality is not hard data, but an estimate.
It's clear that the agreed-upon quota was violated.
And whether the agreed-upon quota and mortality rates were 100% accurate is not important - they were agreed to.
The time to challenge and change things is before they are violated. For example, its best to try and have the speed limit in an area raised before you get a ticket, not after you have broken it.
The few weeks of extra fishing enjoyed by anglers last fall in the long run will greatly hurt their cause.
Prove It. Yelling "It's True It's True" does not make it so. In one sentence you say "It's clear that the agreed-upon quota was violated." in the very next you say "And whether the agreed-upon quota and mortality rates were 100% accurate is not important - they were agreed to." One of these things is not like the other. (this is me, shaking my head)
Posted on: 6/15 12:54:41
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Re: New Petition to eliminate Treaty Management on Mille Lacs |
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LSF Member Joined:
02/28/2005
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Quote:
LOW1 wrote:
It gets real hard to claim misconduct by the Bands when it was the anglers who intentionally violated their quota last year.
Which can neither be proven, nor disproved. Hooking mortality is not hard data, but an estimate.
Posted on: 6/15 11:09:00
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Re: Outside panel to review Mille Lacs & DNR policy |
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LSF Member Joined:
02/28/2005
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Only as a reason for The Slot.
The Slots are what have hosed the lake.
Posted on: 6/9 12:41:01
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Re: Outside panel to review Mille Lacs & DNR policy |
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LSF Member Joined:
02/28/2005
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"The DNR also believes that high Mille Lacs catch rates this summer don’t necessarily mean the lake’s walleyes have rebounded."
I finally agree with the DNR!!
(there was never an issue in the first place, so of course there was no "rebound")
Posted on: 6/7 12:15:58
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Re: Alumacraft vs Lund |
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LSF Member Joined:
02/28/2005
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It's the old Ford Vs Chevy!!
Pick the one that you like, and you will be happy.
Pick the one that someone recommended, and you may not be.
Posted on: 6/6 9:35:35
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Re: New to the Isanti area |
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LSF Member Joined:
02/28/2005
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You are not real far from East/West Rush.
They are good multispecies lakes.
East is Sugar Bowl
West is deep with lots of structure to explore.
There is a channel between them, so you can launch on either.
Up 65 to the Brahm cutoff (107) then East on 413th Lake Drive NE will take you to the North end of them.
Posted on: 5/30 10:59:23
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