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Re: New Petition to eliminate Treaty Management on Mille Lacs
LSF Member
Joined:
01/15/2008
From Mille Lacs/Landfall
Posts: 1063
These stats are most glaring to me. The perch population has completely crashed and very few are talking about that. This thing has really become a complete mess all around.

Yellow Perch

State anglers
Harvested 2,995 lbs. (6,205 fish) ice fishing through March 19, 2017
Harvested 15 lbs. (38 fish) from May 13-31, 2017
Released: 84 lbs. (263 fish) from May 13-31, 2017
Tribal fishing total: 787 of 135,000 allowed lbs. (1,049 fish)
State angler total: 3,010 of 135,000 allowed lbs. (6,243 fish)

Harvested 38 perch.

Posted on: 6/28 15:57:42
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Re: New Petition to eliminate Treaty Management on Mille Lacs
LSF Member
Joined:
05/06/2012
From North shore of Mille Lacs
Posts: 1694
Quote:

Oldstar wrote:
These stats are most glaring to me. The perch population has completely crashed and very few are talking about that. This thing has really become a complete mess all around.

Yellow Perch

State anglers
Harvested 2,995 lbs. (6,205 fish) ice fishing through March 19, 2017
Harvested 15 lbs. (38 fish) from May 13-31, 2017
Released: 84 lbs. (263 fish) from May 13-31, 2017
Tribal fishing total: 787 of 135,000 allowed lbs. (1,049 fish)
State angler total: 3,010 of 135,000 allowed lbs. (6,243 fish)

Harvested 38 perch.


This is one reason that I find it disturbing that during the spawning season we have this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiukumcVlUw

It's funny that the GLIFWC CO didn't know what the quota was, but he was SURE they weren't going to reach it. The tulibee population and the population of shiners is also down. When the bigger walleyes can't find any of these three species of baitfish, the next species is their own young. (walleyes)
When you get more big fish than little fish, there is an imbalance that hurts our fishery, and kills off our fish populations.

I would have thought that would have been covered in Fisheries Biology 101, which I thought was a mandatory class if you wanted to be a Fisheries Biologist for the Department of Natural Resources.

Posted on: 6/29 6:01:30
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Re: New Petition to eliminate Treaty Management on Mille Lacs
LSF Member
Joined:
12/04/2008
From Detroit Lakes
Posts: 1570
Maybe you should apply to be a DNR fisheries biologist since you know so much more than the ones they have about fisheries biology. Its an easy job no doubt. We could start a petition for the governor to appoint you. It might get as many signatures as the one you've started. Seriously though, everyone thinks the principles of wildlife management are so easy to master. The trained professionals who understand population dynamics have a hard time managing populations because...oh yeah...there's external influences. Fish don't repopulate at the same rate every year, a lot of that is based on factors like wind, temp, water levels, food availability, water clarity, plant growth and so on and so forth. I suppose if a surgeon had difficulty with your wife's hip surgery, the job must have been so easy you should've done it instead. This whole premise that the DNR just doesn't know how to manage is absurd. There are as many external influences on their ability to do the job (like people who overly scrutinize their work because they think it's easy) as there are on the actual fish community. And the LSF Facebook post calling the DNR idiots...honestly do you think they even have a lot of control at the local level. They're people who do a job. And the principles they use, the "science" isn't novel to Mille Lacs lake. It's used nationally. And I'm positive if something came along that was more accurate, less expensive, and easier to implement they'd be all over it. How does anybody even fish this lake? You must go through a ton of ice packs from doing all that armchair quarterbacking.

Posted on: 6/29 11:33:07
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Re: New Petition to eliminate Treaty Management on Mille Lacs
LSF Member
Joined:
01/27/2015
From Two Harbors
Posts: 142
Quote:

arneb04 wrote:
Maybe you should apply to be a DNR fisheries biologist since you know so much more than the ones they have about fisheries biology. Its an easy job no doubt. We could start a petition for the governor to appoint you. It might get as many signatures as the one you've started. Seriously though, everyone thinks the principles of wildlife management are so easy to master. The trained professionals who understand population dynamics have a hard time managing populations because...oh yeah...there's external influences. Fish don't repopulate at the same rate every year, a lot of that is based on factors like wind, temp, water levels, food availability, water clarity, plant growth and so on and so forth. I suppose if a surgeon had difficulty with your wife's hip surgery, the job must have been so easy you should've done it instead. This whole premise that the DNR just doesn't know how to manage is absurd. There are as many external influences on their ability to do the job (like people who overly scrutinize their work because they think it's easy) as there are on the actual fish community. And the LSF Facebook post calling the DNR idiots...honestly do you think they even have a lot of control at the local level. They're people who do a job. And the principles they use, the "science" isn't novel to Mille Lacs lake. It's used nationally. And I'm positive if something came along that was more accurate, less expensive, and easier to implement they'd be all over it. How does anybody even fish this lake? You must go through a ton of ice packs from doing all that armchair quarterbacking.


I know a few of the biologists that work at the aitkin office and from what I hear from these LOCAL fisheries is opposite of what the media states. That being said I have been told numerous times that there are more walleyes in this lake right now than there ever has been. From a legitimate source, the facts are getting twisted by the BIG names in the cities at the capitol. There is too much back door money getting thrown at the state compared to what the fishing brings in so therefore at the capitol level nobody really gives a crap. So people on LSF calling these biologists idiots is perfectly fine because somewhere in the chain there is a bunch of lying going on. Also if you want call out someone on their petition when you don't have a clue whats going on is pretty Messed up. Go bank beat somewhere else.

Posted on: 6/29 11:58:30
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Re: New Petition to eliminate Treaty Management on Mille Lacs
LSF Member
Joined:
12/04/2008
From Detroit Lakes
Posts: 1570
Quote:

fishnpole wrote:
Quote:

Oldstar wrote:
These stats are most glaring to me. The perch population has completely crashed and very few are talking about that. This thing has really become a complete mess all around.

Yellow Perch

State anglers
Harvested 2,995 lbs. (6,205 fish) ice fishing through March 19, 2017
Harvested 15 lbs. (38 fish) from May 13-31, 2017
Released: 84 lbs. (263 fish) from May 13-31, 2017
Tribal fishing total: 787 of 135,000 allowed lbs. (1,049 fish)
State angler total: 3,010 of 135,000 allowed lbs. (6,243 fish)

Harvested 38 perch.


This is one reason that I find it disturbing that during the spawning season we have this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiukumcVlUw

It's funny that the GLIFWC CO didn't know what the quota was, but he was SURE they weren't going to reach it. The tulibee population and the population of shiners is also down. When the bigger walleyes can't find any of these three species of baitfish, the next species is their own young. (walleyes)
When you get more big fish than little fish, there is an imbalance that hurts our fishery, and kills off our fish populations.

I would have thought that would have been covered in Fisheries Biology 101, which I thought was a mandatory class if you wanted to be a Fisheries Biologist for the Department of Natural Resources.


Yeah yeah Jay, you don't know me so I must not know anything. Fair point....... the above quote is what I'm talking about. If you say the decisions are getting made higher up, I don't probably disagree. But those aren't biologists. Those are planners. Those are people higher in the chain closer to political pressure. What we have here is a set of harvest data and figures based on creel survey estimates and a couple people who see just the numbers going "oh those don't look right, oh boy that's a concern". Really? How many people actively targeted yellow perch on mille Lacs lake from May 13-31? Probably 0. See. This whole "I know a guy whose a legit source, who knows a guy that says stuff is messed up" isn't any more credible than you think I am. But you know. The walleye harvest information is wrong. But these perch numbers (which come from the same place) are very right and very alarming....ok then.

Posted on: 6/29 12:29:58
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Re: New Petition to eliminate Treaty Management on Mille Lacs
LSF Member
Joined:
03/29/2013
Posts: 119
What I can't figure out is why people are so anxious to blame the Bands and get rid of treaty rights. The arguments seem to be:

Two or three years ago = not enough walleye spawn in ML because of gillnetting during the spawn so we must take away treaty rights.

Now = plenty of spawn in ML but they are not surviving so we must still take away treaty rights.

Now= too many big walleye in ML so we even more need to take away treaty rights.

Now = not enough perch in ML so must take away treaty rights.

Now = sport anglers want to kill more walleye so must take away treaty rights and get rid of the DNR.

At some point the blaming of treaty rights for ML's problem really just needs to stop.

Posted on: 6/29 13:37:32
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Re: New Petition to eliminate Treaty Management on Mille Lacs
New Member
Joined:
06/29/2017
Posts: 2
http://www.messagemedia.co/aitkin/input-group-wants-dnr-to-take-a-stand/article_4015660e-a925-11e3-a3c7-0017a43b2370.html

When posed the question as to what the DNR would have done differently, Rick Bruesewitz, Aitkin fisheries supervisor, responded that he wouldn’t have let the resorters push and push for more fish each year to include more liberalized regulations. He said perhaps that’s why they are in this situation now. Pereria and Brueswitz also made it clear that there are numerous circumstances they cannot change within the lake that certainly has an effect that is uncontrollable including zebra mussels, water clarity and climate change.

Posted on: 6/29 15:10:48
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Re: New Petition to eliminate Treaty Management on Mille Lacs
LSF Member
Joined:
05/19/2008
From outta here
Posts: 737

Posted on: 6/29 19:08:07
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Re: New Petition to eliminate Treaty Management on Mille Lacs
LSF Member
Joined:
05/06/2012
From North shore of Mille Lacs
Posts: 1694
Okay, guys. I'm back. Sorry. I was just out fishing all day on the lake in question. I can see the pro- treaty guys have been taking advantage of me not being here to defend the petition.
The first premise of the petition is that too many cooks are spoiling the soup. The "treaty management" is far too slow in understanding what is going on with this fish population.
They do a survey.
Then, the Indians do a survey.
Then the survey results are sent to their superiors.
Then they get the superiors together in 6 months, sometimes more.
Then they have meetings with the technical group of biologists and they send the data back to their VPA modeling program, stick all the data into the database.
Then, about a year down the line they come out with a neatly printed bunch of numbers that the superiors may or may not understand.
THEN, they have yet ANOTHER meeting to go over their imaginary data that was generated by their VPA modeling program that feeds in data from Lake Erie and God only knows what else.

Meanwhile, the fish population is growing like wildfire and our baitfish population is taking a BEATING from all the protected predators they have in this lake.

And guys, it doesn't take a 12 year degree to SEE what's happening on this lake, if you're on it every day like I am. I took biology in college and even though I don't have a degree in it, admittedly, I STILL know that big fish eat little fish.

We've got too many big fish right now.

For those that disagree with THAT, please quit reading my posts.

Treaty management with all the red tape involved is kinda like trying to take a shower with your clothes on.

Our predator-to-prey ratio is skewed badly and even the "Blue Chip Panel of Experts" said that years ago.

The Tribes will be fighting back on this and the insults and the bullying and the insane logic is only going to get worse until we finally do away with treaty management.

Until then, please don't disrespect me for my beliefs and I will respect you for yours.

Posted on: 6/29 19:28:37
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Re: New Petition to eliminate Treaty Management on Mille Lacs
LSF Member
Joined:
05/06/2012
From North shore of Mille Lacs
Posts: 1694
The Messagemedia spin on treaty management is that they are incapable of doing anything about the walleye population because of things that are out of their control.
"Pereria and Brueswitz also made it clear that there are numerous circumstances they cannot change within the lake that certainly has an effect that is uncontrollable including zebra mussels, water clarity and climate change."

I check water clarity for the Minnesota Polution Control Agency. Right now we are at about 10-12 ft clarity. This isn't that far from the 8-10 ft clarity that we had before Treaty Management began.

Climate change is a hoax.

Zebra mussels are declining in the lake. So are spiny water fleas.

The ONLY thing that I see, and both Periera and Brueswitz have told me, is they can't change Treaty Management.

So, why don't they do something about getting rid of the predator problem by adjusting the harvest to take some of the larger predators out of the lake?

It's because GLIFWC (Tribes) told them no.

Posted on: 6/30 12:13:19
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