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Re: De-Listing of the Wolf
LSF Member
Joined:
03/15/2013
Posts: 137
Quote:

bottlebass wrote:
Fair enough I guess the way I see it with all those other things they already have to worry about why should they have to worry about and deal with this additional thing?


To me the answer is simple, they are ranching in wolf territory and that is a risk they have to be willing to take (and it's an extremely miniscule risk). Same as ranchers in the south dealing with extreme heat and drought, ranchers in the west dealing with grizzlies/coyotes/snow, ranchers up-north dealing with extreme cold, etc. It's mother nature, the wolf has more right to the territory than we do, whether some want to admit it or not. A very small amount of livestock predation doesn't justify hunting them. Numbers are not out of control now, and if they do over populate, the prey cycle will naturally reduce the population. It's mother nature, we need to stay out of it, even if our precious deer hunting is diminished.

Posted on: 3/8 15:22:53
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Re: De-Listing of the Wolf
LSF Member
Joined:
11/29/2016
From Rockford
Posts: 81
I'm confused, you are against hunting wolves as a means to manage their population but are okay with hunting deer as a means to manage theirs?

Mind you, I'm not saying that wolves are the overpopulated threat that many people think they are. However, if their numbers are such that their population can support an ethical hunt I would see no difference between that and deer hunting. I think it should be legal to hunt them in a very managed and regulated manner if their population is stable enough to revive itself.

Posted on: 3/8 15:56:53
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Re: De-Listing of the Wolf
LSF Member
Joined:
12/28/2005
Posts: 1342
Quote:

brian6715 wrote:
It's mother nature, the wolf has more right to the territory than we do, whether some want to admit it or not. A very small amount of livestock predation doesn't justify hunting them. Numbers are not out of control now, and if they do over populate, the prey cycle will naturally reduce the population. It's mother nature, we need to stay out of it, even if our precious deer hunting is diminished.


Unfortunately that can no longer happen. Humans have upset the balance to such a point that you can't simply sit back and let mother nature dictate the population of a species like the wolf.

Your argument also fall flat the second you don't eliminate deer hunting as well. You can't sit back and let mother nature handle one species but not another, especially considering how interconnected the deer and wolf are.

Posted on: 3/8 16:09:18
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Re: De-Listing of the Wolf
LSF Member
Joined:
03/15/2013
Posts: 137
Read what I wrote. We don't need to manage their population, at all.
I basically said the wolves have more rights to the deer than we do, so we shouldn't worry about them hurting the deer population.

Also, there is what, 5,000 wolves in this state? There are about 1,000,000 deer, most of which live in a range with very little fear of natural predators, due to us killing the wolf. Overpopulation is a real threat (CWD ring a bell?). So yes, they need to be managed. The wolves do not.

Also, comparing managing an animal with a population of 1,000,000 to an animal of 5,000 does not make any sense in any realm. Not an apples to apples comparison, at all.

Posted on: 3/8 16:09:42
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Re: De-Listing of the Wolf
LSF Member
Joined:
03/15/2013
Posts: 137
Quote:

nofishfisherman wrote:



Your argument also fall flat the second you don't eliminate deer hunting as well. You can't sit back and let mother nature handle one species but not another, especially considering how interconnected the deer and wolf are.


I would argue that IF the deer population can't sustain itself in wolf territory, than we shouldn't hunt them there. Again, I am sure it's an unpopular opinion on an outdoors site, but I would bet I am not the minority in the state with this thought. Nature before hunting is the way I look at it.

Posted on: 3/8 16:12:16
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Re: De-Listing of the Wolf
LSF Member
Joined:
02/11/2008
Posts: 90
I would bet your in the minority in the Deer hunting group in the state. Without control you can say goodby to the Moose in NE Mn. If there is no food there is no wolf. So to be able to have Deer and Moose and wolf there has to be control of the wolf numbers.

Posted on: 3/8 17:49:00
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Re: De-Listing of the Wolf
Hunting Field Staff
Joined:
04/09/2009
From Grand Rapids, MN
Posts: 486
"According to the Wisconsin DNR, "Each wolf kills about 20 deer per year." If there number of 5,000 (which I honestly think is low) kills 20 deer a year, that's 100,000 deer killed. In just 1/3 of the state. How is that not seen as a future problem that is only multiplying?

Posted on: 3/8 18:02:36
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Re: De-Listing of the Wolf
LSF Member
Joined:
01/07/2016
Posts: 159
There are so many factors to talk about with our Mn deer populations ups and downs , and our moose .From our DNRís mismanagement, harsh winters , road kills , and wolves... Harsh winters can and do wipeout extreme amts of deer as seen back in the winters of 95-96 & 96-97 , those two consecutive winters killed from 1/2 - 3/4 of our deer in the whole state , 2014 also comes to mind for massive die offs . Well like it or not we canít control Mother Nature and the winters she gives us , self explanatory as I see it ... Our DNRís mismanagement of our herd downstream of these years doesnít help the rebound , with the bucks only approach, over allotment of doe permits , and so called management tags , over harvesting of available natural browsing, are all things that can and should be approached in a better way , but isnít.. I personally know one of the top whitetail experts in the world , a retired wildlife biologist, professor of Emeritus in this field who says our states management is ridiculous, and has personally tried to give advice to our states wildlife biologists to better manage our herd , only to be fallen on deaf ears . Oh but you say the DNR holds their informational meetings open to the public to discuss just such , but when real talk is presented ,they donít listen , there answers are ď we will take this info into consideration, but absolutely nothing becomes of his input . REALLY I say .this guy knows what heís talking about and is willing to help out , free of charge .. search Dr Harry Jacobson deer and you will see for your self his expertise in this field ... definitely something that can and should be done to help our states whitetails and the harvesting of such . . . As for the wolves ,they need to be managed differently also , another something that we can and most definitely should do. It comes down to accept the things you cannot change , but change the things you can , sound advice for much I will say .. what you say wolf huggers , I bet these wolves will bite the hand of those who try to help them , imagine that !

Posted on: 3/8 19:51:29
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Re: De-Listing of the Wolf
LSF Member
Joined:
02/11/2008
Posts: 90
I think Is. Royal has shown that excessive wolf population is doom for the wolf in the long run. Now the Moose numbers have gone way up now that the wolf population has starved and died from inbreeding, mange and other things.

Posted on: 3/8 21:18:29
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Re: De-Listing of the Wolf
LSF Member
Joined:
01/07/2016
Posts: 159
Yes the isle royal debacle is a farce in itís own way .They bring back the wolf to control the population of the moose there . Ah duh , our DNR says wolves are not the reason our moose are in the hurt bag . Well excuse me , the moose range here in Mn just so happens to be where the wolf have a big footprint, and oh did I mention there are no deer there anymore either.. Oh ya , I jus recalled that our DNR says there are no deer there because of their aggressive deer management in that part of the state , ya right . So there you have it, no deer , no moose , just wolves . So now with no deer or wolves left in this area the wolves are forced to move on to better pastures where there is food for them to survive . The DNR says that the wolf range is expanding throughout the state , imagine that . Itís so sad because back in 70s and 80s moose were all over the north , our moose population was at all time highs then , but guess what our wolf population was a lot lower back then . Lots of nonsense, lots of bologna, lots of huggers , lots of studies , lots of wasted money too . Nothing new , sad but true .

Posted on: 3/8 23:18:29
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