Lead shot ban on WMA’s

[JJ]

You seem to confuse lead shot, and particulate lead that is present in the environment, and in products. Since we are talking about lead shot in particular:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/11/041104005801.htm

Professor James Craig, now retired, and Rimstidt looked first at lead corrosion and whether lead is leaching into the water table or streams. “Lead metal is unstable when it is in contact with air and water. It corrodes and forms hydrocerrussite, the white coating seen on old bullets in museums. That slows corrosion,” Rimstidt said.

However some lead escapes, he said. “But we learned that it is absorbed in the top few inches of soil and does not migrate beyond that,” Rimstidt said. “Lead is not very mobile. It does not wash away in surface or ground water.

You can view the proposed rules at this link

The fact of the matter is, Minnesota DNR is proposing new lead ammunition prohibitions. Whether for, or against the shot ban, i would encourage you to reach out, and let your voice be heard. I am not a fan of unelected officials making rules, and prefer the legislative process, but you have to play with hand you are dealt. Please e-mail Jason Abraham at [email protected] and tell him that you are opposed to the proposed new regulation.

Minnesota Gun Owners Caucus

[JJ]

Incrementalism keep on creeping, and it will happen as people stand by on the wayside.

http://kstp.com/news/minnesota-dnr-lead-ammunition-ban/4055061/

The DNR initially started accepting comments about the issue in October 2015. Of the 3,740 comments they received in 60 days, 2,220 expressed support while 1,520 expressed opposition, according to the DNR.

…snip…

DNR officials say they plan to host a meeting in March with both proponents and opponents. The final decision about the proposal will come after that March meeting and after the state Legislature has had a chance to discuss the topic.

Minnesota Gun Owners Caucus

[bottlebass]

JJ wrote:
Incrementalism keep on creeping, and it will happen as people stand by on the wayside.

http://kstp.com/news/minnesota-dnr-lead-ammunition-ban/4055061/

The DNR initially started accepting comments about the issue in October 2015. Of the 3,740 comments they received in 60 days, 2,220 expressed support while 1,520 expressed opposition, according to the DNR.

…snip…

DNR officials say they plan to host a meeting in March with both proponents and opponents. The final decision about the proposal will come after that March meeting and after the state Legislature has had a chance to discuss the topic.

Sounds like ~60% of people support this. I wonder if the comments in support were from actual hunters though.

[Doberfishman]

bottlebass wrote:

JJ wrote:

This isn’t just about lead shot. The logical next step is to ban all lead projectiles (just like California). In the “farmland zone” the vast majority of deer hunters are still using smoothbore barrels and lead rifle slugs. there are no copper alternatives, unless hunter progress to a rifled slug barrel with copper sabots. There is a significant cost there.

I can understand your point there. That I would be against I guess. But I still don’t have a problem with using steel shot on WMAs here in MN.

You need to be consistent in your opposition to anything. Doesn’t make sense to oppose banning lead slugs while accepting a proposed ban on lead shot. Just because your ox isn’t being gored at the time does not mean that you shouldn’t be opposing it. Once the opposition has their foot in the door, they keep moving forward and it never stops and you will fall victim to their laws eventually.

Fishing relaxes me. It's like yoga, except I still get to kill something - Ron Swanson

[bottlebass]

Doberfishman wrote:

You need to be consistent in your opposition to anything. Doesn’t make sense to oppose banning lead slugs while accepting a proposed ban on lead shot. Just because your ox isn’t being gored at the time does not mean that you shouldn’t be opposing it. Once the opposition has their foot in the door, they keep moving forward and it never stops and you will fall victim to their laws eventually.

Doom and gloom! It makes complete sense as there is a readily available alternative to lead shot but there isn’t for lead slugs.

[snow]

Actually I see the dnr is pushing for non-tox slugs as well,during the shot show Hevi Shot claimed they will have non-tox slugs available by late summer.If its anything like they’re waterfowl and upland loads it should be very lethal and spot on.

[snow]

Actually our drinking water comes from a aquifer well below surface water that we have down to the 1st layer of clay which seals out all contaminates(drinking water wells are required to be below the 1st layer of clay),some clay layers and soft shale are found well below glacial drift rumble below 100′ of the surface,at one time 100′ was the norm for modern day residential wells,today I suspect its much lower,further city well are placed 100’s of feet below the surface and sealed on bed rock usually lime stone or sandstone,then a open smaller diameter hole is drilled into the bedrock where open cracks in the rock produces our drinking water,these open holes will go down a few 100 feet so the wells can produce x amount of water per minute,so the chances of lead or mercury in our well systems is slim to none.

Asd far as birds dying from injested lead shot? not sold on the idea,however when the lead shot ban hit us in the mid 80’s the dnr said the reason 1st and formost was because of birds of pray eating cripple birds as they migrate south and then dying from lead posining.

Well,I had a friend back then that lived in montivideo who was a veterinarian and also owned a sporting goods shop in town,man the stories he had of cripple birds from sky busters when we switched to steel they found in the lac qui parle refuge,he fought the lead ban for years,even had a Big Goose contest so he could collect gizzards to do his reseach,outof 500 giazzards he found 5 lead pellets,so the dnr data is flawed,but here we are today and better steel loads now and even more non tox alternatives.

[wobblinwalleye]

Its call progressivism. I would much rather have the choice than not to shoot lead if I please.

I am with some of the others on this forum. They will just keep taking what you give them until there is nothing left to give!

[WANNABEINOTC]

I was a kid when the lead ban hit. My dad had to go buy a new 20ga for me as the .410 was no longer an option.
I was young back when the ban started, but I recall steel shot being a lot more expensive then than it is now. And I’m pretty sure copper sabots are a lot more expensive than lead rifled slugs now too.
So as they take their incremental steps and ban all lead for hunting some will have to buy new guns/barrels and bullets and rifled slugs go the wayside as mentioned earlier.
Then when everyone has to re-tool and costs go up even more because of demand you’ll all be pissed that the copper pebble mines up in Bristol Bay never passed. ” title=”” class=”bbcode_smiley” />

[JJ]

bottlebass wrote:

Doberfishman wrote:

You need to be consistent in your opposition to anything. Doesn’t make sense to oppose banning lead slugs while accepting a proposed ban on lead shot. Just because your ox isn’t being gored at the time does not mean that you shouldn’t be opposing it. Once the opposition has their foot in the door, they keep moving forward and it never stops and you will fall victim to their laws eventually.

Doom and gloom! It makes complete sense as there is a readily available alternative to lead shot but there isn’t for lead slugs.

There has been non-tox slugs available for years. Federal Tropphy Copper, Barnes offerings, etc. The cost is much higher for saboted copper slugs. You also need a fully rifled barrel for them to work very well.

One needs to look no further than California to see where this is headed. It started with a lead shot ban, and by the time it was done, resulted in a ban on all lead projectiles. Yet, the impetus for the restrictions, the California Condor, continues to have issues with lead poisoning.

Spend some time looking at the actual dangers of lead ingestion. Lead is much different in elemental vs compound form. The actual danger from investing while lead shot is astonishingly low. The danger from lead compounds (lead based paint and such) is where lead is truly dangerous, because it is broken down into a format that passes through cellular tissues much easier.

Minnesota Gun Owners Caucus

[JJ]

http://mobile.dudamobile.com/site/huntfortruth_10?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.huntfortruth.org%2Fmyths%2F&dm_redirected=true#2847

Minnesota Gun Owners Caucus

[Doberfishman]

bottlebass wrote:

Doom and gloom! It makes complete sense as there is a readily available alternative to lead shot but there isn’t for lead slugs.

Liberals/environmentalists have a lot of money and a lot of supporters and they will stop at nothing to push their agenda. They don’t care if it makes “sense” or if their science is right or that it will cost you more money because it is all emotional to them. They just care that they got whatever it is banned.

Fishing relaxes me. It's like yoga, except I still get to kill something - Ron Swanson

[JJ]

Kevin Vick, a volunteer testifying on behalf of the MN Gun Owners Caucus & Political Action Committee before the Mining and Outdoor Recreation Policy Committee this afternoon.

Kevin testified in favor of a bill authored by Representative Tom Hackbarth that would stop the attempt by the Minnesota DNR to ban lead ammunition in wildlife management areas in Minnesota.

We have notified committee members that we will be scoring all votes related to this bill for our 2016 legislative scorecard.

The bill to stop the DNR lead ban passed committee 11-3 and was sent to the General Register:

• Hackbarth Aye
• Lueck Aye
• Anzelc Aye
• Consinde No
• Cornish Aye
• Ecklund Aye
• Hertaus Aye
• Johnson Aye
• Kiel Aye
• McNamara Aye
• Melin No
• Metsa Aye
• Yarusso No
• Lucero Aye

Minnesota Gun Owners Caucus

[born]

I’m glad to see this legislation. Thank you Tom Hackbarth.

Help Yourself

[JJ]

Rep. Tom Hackbarth’s HF3209 – a bill to stop the MN DNR from regulating lead shot advances to the House Government Operations & Elections committee this week.

Can you join us at the hearing?

Wednesday, March 23rd
10:15am – State Office Building – Basement Hearing Room

If you’re not able to make the hearing, please contact the members of the committee at the link below and tell them that you support HF3209 and urge their support:

http://www.house.leg.state.mn.us/comm/committeemembers.asp?comm=89011

Minnesota Gun Owners Caucus

[Author]

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